Podcast Appearances on RIA Succession & Exit Planning

“And this isn’t, the stat isn’t specific to financial advisors, but across all kind of
sunsetters in all industries. A year after transition, it’s like 70 or 75% of sellers
regret selling. And it’s not from a financial, man, I didn’t get top dollar.
It’s what the heck do I do with my life now? I was spending 40, 50 hours a week
doing this, and now I’m supposed to do the crossword puzzle and fish every day.
So, there’s a lot of planning both from the business side but also the personal that
needs to happen prior to a success.
So we just, we work with folks kind of holistically and help them plan for
something that goes smoother than they anticipated and they can really, they’ve
got a plan for after they retire or move on to the third act.
You’re listening to The Uncertainty EDGE, the show about the art and science of
moving forward when the path isn’t clear. I’m your host, Sam Sivarajan. Each
episode I sit down with leaders, advisors and thinkers to explore how they
navigate uncertainty, make better decisions and stay focused in a world that rarely
cooperates.
Together we’ll look for clarity hidden inside uncertainty.
Hi everyone, I’m Sam Sivarajan, and welcome to today’s episode of The
Uncertainty EDGE Podcast. Today, I’m joined by Andrew Mirolli, co-founder of
BuyAUM, a specialized firm that’s reimagining how smaller advisory practices can
navigate succession planning with a background spanning alternatives,
investments, and entrepreneurship. Andrew has identified a massive gap in the
market, with thousands of solo advisors managing under 250 million who lack
viable succession options.
Rather than the traditional blasted to everyone approach, Andrew and his team
have developed a unique process, a methodical relationship-first approach that’s
helping advisors transition their life’s work in record time. In just one year of
operation, they’ve closed deals in as little as 134 days by focusing on what
The Uncertainty EDGE_Transcript 1
matters most, truly understanding what sellers want and finding the right cultural
fit. Andrew, welcome to the show.
And thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure to be here.
Looking forward to our conversation. So, Andrew, your journey took you from
alternatives investments in Newport Beach to co-founding BuyAUM with a partner
you met through a cold call. Walk us through that evolution and what sparked your
recognition that smaller advisory practices needed a different approach to
Succession Planning.
Yeah, so it’s the recognition really came as a consequence of just doing normal
business and entrepreneurship. I’ve been working with financial advisors my
whole career, which is about 10 years. Moved out to Newport Beach, originally
selling alternative investments like REITs.
I went into oil and gas. I got into venture, private real estate, all of that stuff. And I
saw some of the advisors that I had worked with.
And in fact, my father was, he was an Air Force pilot for 28 years and at 40
became an advisor and grew a significant practice. And then he was the old bird
in the group, younger partners. And he had a solid book that he wanted to
transition out, needed a retirement plan.
And so they found someone to buy their practice. It took 18 months. It almost split
the firm apart.
They lost some of their partners or advisors. It was a huge mess. And I saw that
and I said, I had been in full-time entrepreneurship for a couple of years.
And I was like, there’s a better way to do this, right? I love the, I don’t know if it’s a
quote or analogy that says like, one percent better or three percent better is
innovation. And so that was really the genesis of this is, what is the current
landscape of M&A within financial advisory practices?
And how do we make it just a little bit better? So I got a cold call from who now is
probably my best friend. We speak every day for many hours.
And he cold called me and he said, the best line I’ve ever heard, he said, Andrew, I
want to be honest with you. It’s a cold call. Do you want to hang up or give me 30
seconds?
That’s pretty good. I’ll give you 30 seconds. I make cold calls all day.
The Uncertainty EDGE_Transcript 2
I haven’t heard that. So we started speaking. We ended up having monthly kind of
how’s life going?
Let’s talk about business. And that really blossomed into a friendship. And then we
saw this gap in the market and said, we’re a great team.
How do we do this a little bit better?
Cool. Yeah, I’ve never heard of a cold call line like that as well. You’re right.
It’s kind of intriguing. You’re the elephant on the table, right? So now you’ve
identified something that is interesting, which is that to 60% of advisors are
around 60 or over in total across the US and correspondingly in Canada, they’re
managing trillions of dollars and assets in total.
Yet many of them have smaller practices without a viable succession plan. Can
you paint a picture of what typically happens to a solo advisor with a call it a 50
million, 75 million, 100 million dollar practice who has no plan when they’re ready
to retire?
Sure. Yeah. So it is.
I mean, the numbers are really staggering. It is we’ll just say trillions of dollars, but
it is let’s call it half of every advisor out there is in the next 10 to 15 years going to
be retired. Now, one thing about this, Sam, is that these guys are not coal miners,
right?
And so being an advisor at 72 is not the same as digging a ditch. And so there is a
longer runway for this. However, most of these gentlemen and ladies are
independent advisors or they’re a part of a team because but most of who we
work with are independent advisors or they’re a part of a team because but most
of who we work with are independents.
And they do that because it’s a lifestyle practice. They work 10 to 50 hours a
week, maybe on the high side. It’s not a big scale.
And so life is good and the practice is running. And so it’s just this thought in the
back of their head of what happens if I get hit by a bus or I’ve heard that multiples
for these practices are ticking up. I wonder what my practice is worth.
It’s just me and a hundred families that I steward. I got 50, 60, 70 million in assets.
I don’t really know.
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And that’s what we find a lot is that when we first engage with the Sunsetter, it’s
more of a Q&A session. What’s going on in the market? How should I do this?
How should I think about it? But what typically happens is without someone like
us, they maybe get to the point where they finally say, OK, I’ve had enough. I’m
tired of the market or I’m tired of my clients or audits.
I want to transition. We’ve got a guy that we’re working with that just reached the
hundred million marks. And now he’s going to be SEC registered.
He’s like, I’ve been doing state audits my whole career. I’m not really sure how to
go about this. I’d rather join a bigger firm.
There’s countless stories right there, right? But what typically happens is they’ll
find a marketer or a big aggregator. They’ll put their business.
They’ll have one short call. That person will kind of create a listing almost like
Zillow. And then their practice is up for sale.
And sometimes clients find out about that. And that can be a whole conversation.
Other times they get swamped with offers.
And they don’t even really know what their practice is worth. But now they have
50 LOIs. And they’re having to sift through that.
So it can be a very strenuous process that, again, they’re independent. Maybe
they have one assistant, maybe two. But no one to really bounce ideas off of.
The country club multiple often is in their brain of, I heard this guy got six times
revenue. I should get that. There’s just really a lack of information and knowledge.
Because while there are tens of thousands of advisors, they’re very silent. And so
it’s not this intense community where you’re talking about this or that. That’s more
of the rare case.
So often it is, imagine the first time you tried to buy a house, maybe years ago,
you didn’t know what you’re looking for, right? You get a hundred offers for a
lender closing. I mean, it’s just this unknown.
And so a lot of times mistakes are made that a certified SIPA, which is a Certified
Exit Planning Advisor, and this isn’t the stat isn’t specific to financial advisors, but
across all kind of sunsetters in all industries, a year after transition, it’s like 70 or
75% of sellers regret selling. And it’s not from a financial man. I didn’t get top
dollar.
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It’s what the heck do I do with my life now? I was spending 40, 50 hours a week
doing this. And now I’m supposed to do the crossword puzzle and fish every day.
So, there’s a lot of planning both from the business side but also the personal that
needs to happen prior to a success. So we just, we work with folks kind of
holistically and help them plan for something that goes smoother than they
anticipated. And they can really, they’ve got to plan for after they retire or move on
to the third act.
No, I think it’s ironic, right? Many financial advisors are working with their clients,
helping them do exactly that, right? They are helping them on exit planning for the
business or they’re planning for retirement.
The real top advisors are helping those clients sit there and think through the
things that you’re talking about. How are you going to fill those 50 hours a week
that you were spending at work? Who’s your friend network that was at work that
you were getting, etc.
And it’s the old saying that the shoemakers’ children are the ones that often go
barefoot, etc. I think the idea of being, helping support an advisor through this
process and getting them to think through these things, I think is very valuable.
But let me unpack this a bit, obviously, as you rightfully point out, this is not a
conversation that they’re having with a lot of other advisors because this idea of
your selling for the reasons that you talked about, that you don’t[…] others in the
industry to know, you don’t want your clients to find out, especially if you’re early
in the stages of exploring what this might look like.
What is the market for a smaller practice, etc.? Are there big firms that are looking
to, or aggregators that are looking to buy a $50, $60, $70 million practice? Or
does it really depend on other factors that make it, whether it determines how
much demand there might be for that type of a practice, like location, the
demographics, all of those things?
The short answer is absolutely. At the end of the day, you’re seeing this all trickles
down to supply and demand, right? And so the reason that you hear the country
club multiple and the value of these practices increasing is that there’s a lot of
people out there buying them.
And it typically most of the action, these high multiples are happening in the
billion, $5 billion, $10 billion ranges. Why? It’s because it’s safe, recurring revenue.
The Uncertainty EDGE_Transcript 5
If you put your just investor hat on, cash flowing from day one, it’s very sticky
revenue. What a beautiful thing to spend PE money to buy, right? So that[…] down
all the way into what we call the lower market, which is sub $200 million, $250
million.
Now we work, we’re doing a deal with a guy right now. He’s got a broker dealer
and a BD, $550 million. It’s not like we only work in the lower market.
But what we find, Sam, is that the lower market is fairly ignored. I had a
conversation with the guy in San Diego. He filled out our true value report to get a
free, no strings attached kind of what’s the value of your practice.
And we had a follow up call. And he’s like, well, that’s all great. But, you know, I’ve
got $38 million.
Is that like do you even work with people like me? Is that too small? Which is a fair
question.
But the surprising truth is that a lot like the the the if you look at not at AUM, but
number of advisors, the bulk, two standard deviations, the main segment of those
advisors are independent and typically have less than 100, 120 million. So that’s
where the most of the of the sellers or sunsetters are. And there’s not a lot of
service[…] support that goes into that.
There’s other firms that do great work or more like investment banking. And they
say, unless we can net a million dollars on a fee on doing a transaction, we don’t
touch it. That’s got to be a huge practice.
And so one of the, if we talk about micro improvements to the whole industry that
we’re looking at is, how can we serve the lower market because no one’s
knocking on their door looking to buy their assets. The result is you’ve got a 72
year old guy in Dallas, Texas, with 15 or 20 million bucks under management, has
no plan, has no prospects. He’s got something that’s of value that people are
willing to buy, but there’s not that bridge.
So there’s absolutely a market for it, Sam, because it is that recurring revenue.
That being said, not all books are equal. Not all books demand the same revenue
multiple.
Even two $50 million books might be structured. This guy’s got, he’s charging 1.75
or even 2% on his fees. This guy’s charging 1%.
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You would think, well, this first one, there’s more revenue, so that’s a higher value
of it. Not[…] necessarily because as the buyer, hey, I’ve got a system, I charge a
flat 1% fee. I need to normalize those fees down to the…
So there’s a lot of nuances to this where advisors have, again, it’s a lifestyle
practice. Good for them. It’s been paying bills and providing for their family for
two, three, four generations or decades.
I don’t really know what I should do to sell it.
Right.
That’s where we help kind of, it’s like curb appeal, right? You’re gonna pressure
wash your house. You’re gonna clean the carpets before you put it on the market.
At least you should, right? My grandfather would say, when you’re buying a car,
always check to see if the trunk is clean. Because if the trunk’s not clean, the
person didn’t care about the car and you’re gonna have problems.
So a little bit different, but same sort of thing. It’s like, how can you improve the
value of your practice? It’s by doing these little things prior to putting it on the
market.
But there’s absolutely buyers or interest in even the lower markets assets.
Now, let’s talk a little bit about the process that I’d mentioned[…] the intro, that you
call it your vision casting process, which involves three specific calls with the
sellers. Walk us through each of these calls and explain how this approach differs
from what you’re seeing in traditional marketplaces that are active in the US.,
platforms like FP Transitions, for instance.
And I would say, Sam, that not everyone’s a seller, right? Sometimes it’s a scary
word. It’s more of a sunsetter or what am I going to do in my third act?
And FP Transitions does a terrific job. They are the big behemoths in the space.
They’ve been around for 25 years.
They are excellent at what they do. The difference between BuyAUM and some of
those other firms is that I think what we do best is we listen, which is kind of a
cheesy answer. But when you look at what we do, we spend four to six hours with
a sunsetter before any introductions are made.
The first call of the vision casting process is all about the true value report. It’s a
free valuation of the practice. It’s not a rifle shot, but it takes you from looking at a
The Uncertainty EDGE_Transcript 7
mountainscape to binoculars.
It goes[…] , I have no idea what my practice is worth to, here’s a range. The first
call is all about, we call it the TVR, the True Value Report call. Where’s your
business?
How many assistants do you have? What’s your revenue? What fees are you
charging?
Are you doing financial planning? What’s your story? Have you been in this
business for 50 years?
Is this a second career? Take me from Genesis to today on your practice. I’m not
getting into what’s your, show me your financials, all of that stuff.
We don’t do something. And this is a business model risk that we actively engage
with, which is we’re not asking people to sign exclusivity. We’re not asking people
to pay us a monthly retainer from a sell side.
This is purely concierge value driven. And does that mean that some folks do two
or three of the calls and then say, actually, the guy down the street is a good
transition partner for me. I’m going to go work.
That’s totally fine. Right. Not the best business model.
It’s a risk that we take, but it allows us to be super authentic and transparent in
these conversations. So[…] first call is all about, tell me about your business, how
it functions today. Second call is the legacy matchmaker.
Sam, when you think about your legacy, your practice, who do you want to
transition it to? Are they geographically located near you? Does that not matter?
Do they align on investment philosophy? Or does that not matter? Like all of these
things, not numbers or deals, but when you think about who you’re passing the
baton to of your legacy, which is the biggest thing that a lot of these guys and
girls, what they’re most careful in transitioning, right?
I don’t want to pass these relationships off to just anybody or the highest bidder.
It’s who does that person look like, act like? One of the questions I love asking is,
let’s say, Sam, that you found the perfect transition partner, you’ve done a deal
that you love, and you’re introducing them to your top two or three clients.
What are some of the things that you’re bragging about this person? They’ve got a
perfect track record or they’ve got a clean income. Let’s put yourself in that future
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state.
What do you like about it? So it[…] out of these guys. What are you really looking
for?
And the reason this is helpful is because usually it’s just a thought in the back of
their mind that has not, they haven’t taken action with. And so these calls are
meant to be very slow and methodical. Some of our advisors go, usually I’m the
one asking these questions.
You know, I feel like I’m in the therapy chair, but it’s helpful because it helps them
think about stuff they haven’t spent the time thinking about. And the third call is all
structuring the deal. How do you want to get paid?
Do you want to get paid in a lump sum? Do you realize that that’s more risk for the
buyer, so it’s probably going to be a smaller number? Do you want to get paid over
two or three years?
Are taxes important? All of that stuff, so that by the end of it, you have what we
call a succession blueprint. This is the rough value of my practice and how it’s
structured and ways I can improve it.
Here’s what I’m looking for in a succession partner, style, size, location. And then
here’s a[…] that I would say yes to. I want to get paid 50 percent upfront, 25
percent in month 13 and the other 25 percent in month 25 and then I’m out.
Whatever that looks like. So it’s structured so that by the end of it, the sunsetter
goes, I know what I’m looking for, I know what I would say yes to, and more
importantly, I know what I don’t want. So they’re not spending time going on dates
as we call it with buyers or succession partners that aren’t a fit and really just a
waste of time.
A quick pause. Let me tell you where to go if this conversation is resonating.
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The Uncertainty EDGE_Transcript 9
All right. Back to our episode. Now, the dating analogy is interesting because I
think in all of these things, what you’ve gone through is call it an ideal process[…]
ideal outcome, an ideal buyer.
How are you getting the sunsetters, as you call them, to think through the
inevitable trade-offs that are going to come? And how do they choose between
these different features that, in one case, the deal structure might be that you get
more upfront, but less money, or that the buyer isn’t perfect. There are obviously
trade-offs in any kind of situation that you’re going to get through.
And the sunsetter doesn’t know what those trade-offs are going to be beforehand.
But, in my mind, at least, it’s important that they understand which levers they’re
willing to tweak, and which ones they’re not.
I mean, it is very much up to the seller. They are the ones that are picking who
takes them to the prom. And they get to choose.
Do I want a tall guy or a short guy? Do I want a black limo or a white limo? Do I
want sushi?
Do I want to go to steak before the prom? So how do we help them get there? We
ask sometimes tough questions that no one else is asking them, and we do a lot of
hypothetical[…] Okay, hypothetically, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. How would you
feel about that versus this other one? And so it really depends on what they’re
looking for.
We’ve got a gentleman that he’s done really well for himself over the last 30 or 40
years. It’s not about the money. It’s all about a perfect match between his style,
his way of communicating with clients and who he wants to take over.
He’s not going to take pennies on the dollar, but if it’s a dollar with a bad fit or 75
cents with a great fit, he’s going for 70. Some other gentleman, I want top deal
and I want top dollar. I want it geographically located to where I’m at and I want it
done in the next six months.
Okay, so it really depends what their life situation is. Frankly, that’s why the model
of not pushing them into exclusivity on six month or 12 month, I would be really
struggled because I’m like, hey, we’ve got nine months left in our exclusivity of
representing you. You got to get a deal done.
Maybe he’s two years out. So it’s very much like, look, we’re not asking[…] to pay
us, we’re not asking you to be exclusive with you. We are truly here to serve you
The Uncertainty EDGE_Transcript 10
with information.
So what I ask of you, the seller or sunsetter, is to show up with effort and to really
jump into the pool and say, what would this look like? There’s a gentleman in
Texas, older guy, 74, lower market practice. We went through all three X-ray or the
vision casting calls with him.
We got to the end of it and he said, guys, I really appreciate the time. I’m not ready
to do anything. And in fact, I’m not even ready to dip my toes in the pool.
I want to pause. And it’s like, totally fine, sir. Like, we’re here to serve you.
So it really depends, Sam, on what folks are looking for in their current situation,
from timing, deal structure, all of that. We’re here to be the kind of the expert
resource of saying, if this, then that, you know, over and over and over again, that
helps them really say, that I like, that I like, and this I don’t like. And by the end of
it, they know the deal[…] of person and really who they want to take over so that, I
mean, we had a gentleman go on a first date with a buyer.
I don’t want to say they fell in love, but they got a deal done very quickly. And
they, after that one lunch, it was like, I love this guy. He’s great.
He’s exactly what you eat. The seller said, this is another Texas one, said, Andrew
is a lot easier than I thought it would be. I’m like, perfect, right?
And it’s all because we took the time with that gentleman to say, what are you
really looking for? And what’s important? And conversely, what’s not important,
right?
And that’s very different for everyone out there of what’s important and what they
really don’t care about.
That makes sense. I think having that, again, it’s very similar to what an advisor
goes through in bringing on a client is what’s important, what’s not. The more
detailed and complete the discovery process can be with the prospective client,
the better the relationship is going to be.
I think, so you’ve talked about, in effect, your discovery process, these three calls
in that vision process[…] us through what happens after that. You’ve done these
three calls, the Sunsetter is still keen to go forward with you.
What makes your process work and how does it align with, I guess, that discovery
that you’ve identified of what exactly the Sunsetter is looking for?
The Uncertainty EDGE_Transcript 11
At the root of all of this, it’s efficiency of time. Seller fatigue is real. It’s kind of like
Zoom fatigue.
If you’re on eight Zooms in one day, you’re exhausted. It’s like, have I done
anything? That’s very real.
And so the whole point of this, I audited our numbers in May, and we’ve had a lot
of introductions since then. But in May, it was 86% of the introductions that we
made moves forward to, let’s call it a second date. I like him, he likes me, etc.
That is because we spend the time to figure out, Sam, what are you looking for?
What’s a deal you would say yes to? All of those things in the discovery process,
that when that introduction is made, there’s a match, right?
What we don’t do is take all of that information and blast it to 10,000 people, every
RAA in the country[…] over a billion dollars and say, hey, we got it. It is two, no
more than three introductions that we make for a sunsetter of really people that
we feel like they align with. If they say, look, really what’s important to me is we’re
working with someone that’s in Georgia.
What’s really important to me is that the buyer is in Georgia. I’ve got a lot of
historically Southern clients. I want them to be handed off.
We said, I’m going to be honest with you, we don’t currently have a premium
buyer that is in the state of Georgia specifically. Let’s pause. I’m going to go find
an interview.
We do the same thing with buyers. We’ll spend two or three hours getting really
granular so that when we make the introduction, they’re vetted, they’re compliant,
and there’s a good match there. It looks like at the end of that process, and we
asked our Sunsetters, Sam, would you trust us enough to make an introduction?
They don’t have to say yes. Most of the time, every time they say yes, because,
hey, we’ve spent five hours together. You guys know what I’m looking for.
Sure, make an[…] . Then we’ll put them on two or three dates, whether it’s Zoom
or in-person, depending on what their preference is. It’s the beer test.
When I have a second beer with this person, do I like them? Do I get a weird
feeling in my stomach or do I kind of feel at peace about it? From there, maybe a
second or third meeting.
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What we do after that, if both the buyer and the seller say, I like this person, I want
to kind of go exclusive with them, the buyers will send an indication of interest
letter to the seller. It’s non-binding, but it says, give me 45 days exclusivity, maybe
60, whatever they decide to, but typically it’s 45 days, I’ll sign NDAs, here’s a
dropout link, give me the data to do an actual, that detailed valuation. Great.
Sam, I love your practice. Here’s the multiple I would pay on it. Here’s an official
LOI.
Let’s get a deal done. Let’s talk structure another 45 days or so, and then closing.
So it’s, the design is to have all of the work on the front end with my partner,
Reshna and I.
What are[…] looking for? All of that stuff, so that by the time that the introductions
are made, they’re both a good fit. I like B better than A.
And often we’ll have not internal bets, but when we’re making an introduction, we
go, I think he’s really going to like A, but we’ll set them up with B and C too. And
then the seller is like, I love B. I didn’t really like A.
It’s like, it’s great. So we like to keep it limited so that there’s not seller fatigue, but
we’re working with the gentleman in the New England area who came to us with
four LOIs on the table. And halfway through our process, we said, okay, well, Sam,
let me be frank with you.
Why are we even doing this? You got four offers on the table. Well, they don’t have
this, and I sent an email wanting that, and then it’s like they didn’t hear me and
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And so I said, so you really have no LOIs on the table. He’s like, yeah, I really
don’t. And so that’s the difference, right?
You might have four or five deals, but[…] of them are the deal or the partner. And
so that’s really the point of this is let’s have some therapy sessions where we’re
asking tough questions, get to the root of what you’re looking for, what matters
and doesn’t, so that when you do get the next LOI, it’s the deal. It’s the partner
and from there everything can go really fast.
And just for clarification to the audience, you guys don’t get involved. Your role is
matchmaker for lack of a better word. You connect buyer and seller or potential
buyers that fit the criteria to the sun setter, make the introduction and then you
step back, right?
The Uncertainty EDGE_Transcript 13
That it’s up to the two partners to figure out, is there a connection, is there not?
What does the deal look like in terms of valuation, in terms of deal structure, all of
those kind of things, you’re no longer involved on either side in terms of moving
that deal forward towards a conclusion. Is that fair?
Yes and no, right? We are not the ones putting pen to paper for the valuation
because at the end of the day, we’ve gotten you from the view of the horizon[…]
binoculars, but we’re not the ones getting married to keep with the dating analogy.
Some buyers do valuations based purely on EBITDA and that’s the way they do it.
Other folks say, I’m going to do top line, but I’m going to normalize your fee
schedule from a crazy 2% right down to 1%, right? So every buyer is a little bit
different in how they do the valuations. I don’t want to get involved in that because
I’m not taking a loan out.
I’m not getting married, right? What we do is we stay involved from a, let’s keep
the parties moving together, let’s set up calls. How did you feel about meeting
them?
It’s all the back channeling stuff. So it’s not that we get out of the car completely,
but we move from the passenger seat to the back seat. And now the buyer and
seller are in the front seats, right?
So that’s kind of our desire. We don’t disappear entirely. Even through transition,
it’s like, okay, now they’ve done a deal and seller is introducing everyone to the
new buyer.
We might help with some language. Hey, here’s a deck from the buyer. Why
don’t[…] share that with your…
Like, we’re here to be of assistance that it’s a successful transition on both sides.
What we don’t do, Sam, is we say, no, don’t you contact that seller without us on
the call. You better…
It’s not hyper-controlling. So the main piece is getting the parties to, yes, let’s go
into deeper due diligence. We do step back.
We do not get out of the car because at the end of the day, success is a
transaction deal done. The seller gets to go to Greece and go on a river cruise, a
Viking cruise without having to worry about his phone, and the buyer has brought
new assets onto their platform. So we stay involved in an attempt to help proceed
forward, but not to be overbearing.
The Uncertainty EDGE_Transcript 14
Now, and to clarify, so you’ve interviewed the Sunsetters, the sellers, you’ve
interviewed the buyers, you made the connection, but you’re compensated by
buyers, and yet serve the sellers, which creates an interesting dynamic. How do
you navigate potential conflicts of interest? And I guess a seller would ask the
question, how come they have the freedom to work outside your buyer’s network
when you’re going[…] all this work?
Yes, it is, as I said in the beginning, it is a calculated business model risk to say,
I’m not gonna force you into exclusivity. Let’s get to a point where we trust each
other. It also puts the onus on us to believe, hey, I think we can bring a great
match to you.
If you find a better one down the street, it’s your business, it’s your life, it’s your
retirement. I’m not gonna control you to force you to sell to one of our buyers. But
I believe in what we’re doing.
I believe I can bring somebody to the table that you’re gonna really like. Yes, are
the buyers compensating us? It’s a double edged sword, right?
No, the seller’s not paying us. We’re not asking them to be exclusive. We’re not
asking them to give us a piece from their pocket.
Other of the big platforms, they say, I’m gonna take 4% from both sides or 3%
from both sides, right? So I’m really the middle man. I got exclusivity.
I set the price. Both people come. I take a piece.
We say, let’s make it a little bit better, right? Let’s[…] the buyers pay us so that we
can truly serve sellers without an obligation of a time in which we’re exclusive,
without them thinking, okay, they’re gonna reach into my pocket one of these days
and ask me to fork over some money. But the other side of that sort is, well, the
buyers are your clients, right?
So how, let me ask you, it’s like without preparing for your show, without bringing
guests on that you truly vet, interview and think would bring value to your show,
like I’m not your client, your listeners are your clients, right? But without putting
time in to ask me questions, you can’t serve your listeners. And it’s the same sort
of way.
It’s like without truly serving sunsetters and sellers and bringing them what they
want, we cannot serve buyers. So we say, yes, we serve buyers by serving
sellers. And it’s been very successful.
The Uncertainty EDGE_Transcript 15
It’s resulted in an authentic relationship with the sunsetters where they like that
we’re not asking them to pay us a thousand bucks a month to be on their platform.
They like that we’re not on the clock to push them towards the transaction. And
we’re very[…] and up front with them.
Look, first call, we say, we’re not going to ask you for money because the buyer is
compensating us if a transaction happens. And it hasn’t led to really conflict of
interest because at the end of the day, it’s a calculated risk that we took. And if
someone says, thanks for the time, I found someone down the street at my
country club that’s going to buy it, godspeed to you.
And that’s the way that we like to do it. I think that the root of this is authentic
service is really what we’re going for. And if I spend five or six hours hearing
about a seller, he’s coming engaged and bringing effort.
I’m very confident that I can bring someone at least that is going to say, that’s a
pretty good option for me. Country club guy might be, you know, I have a longer
relationship with him, but this is also worth my time and effort to see, is this a
better fit? So it’s a long answer, but that’s how we, to sum it up, is that we, yes, we
do serve buyers.
We serve buyers by truly serving[…] .
And I think to your point, as you were talking, you know, the fact that you’re giving
indications of value, you’re talking about deal structure, but you’re not imposing
any of that on the transaction, I think, removes potential areas for conflict of
interest because beyond the fact that, okay, yeah, you’re not getting compensated
by the sunsetters and you’re getting compensated by the buyers, but it’s not
depending on valuation that they agree and it’s not depending on what the deal
structure or any other things that are where the typical conflicts of interests occur
that you’re pushing for a different valuation or different structure that may not be
in the interest of the sellers, right?
Exactly. Exactly. It’s service first, right?
There’s other firms out there, like I said, unless we net a million bucks, we’re not
going to work on the deal. Other firms, it’s like, if our fee is going to be this high,
but then you decide, actually, I don’t want to sell the whole firm. I only want to sell
a minority interest.
The Uncertainty EDGE_Transcript 16
I want to sell 25 percent of the revenue on our firm to an aggregator, keep running
the business. Some other[…] would say, oh, well, our fee just got cut by 75
percent. So I’m going to pass you off to one of the interns, one of the grunts, and
you’re never going to get the management.
Right.
None of that exists, right? So I think it really is a one or three percent better way to
structure it. It is different, but we’ve found there’s a lot of reception to it because
there’s really not any strings attached.
You could get a free valuation and get some knowledge and then say, I’m only
working with a guy who’s 39 years old. He’s in the Midwest area. He’s got 140
million under management.
He’s saying 39 years old is not a seller, right? He’s looking for a transition partner.
He’s the guy that just hit the, he’s going to now be SEC audited.
Doesn’t really want to deal with all of that. Wants to find a transition partner that’s
going to take a minority stake in his business. That’s totally cool with us.
Now, so you can and are serving sellers and buyers in across the US and also
across Canada, right?
Yeah, correct.
So for our listeners, Andrew, who might[…] in that target demographic, the solo
advisors or the smaller practices under call it $200, $250 million and who are
thinking about succession, what are a few things that they can do right now to
prepare for a successful transition down the road?
Two actionable things, I think. One, we’re doing a deal right now that’s in due
diligence. Buyer just got the data room of the seller, all of those client lists and all
of that.
And he looks through and he goes, this is a pretty old book. Now you would say,
well, it’s a sunsetter, so obviously his clients are going to be older, right? But
there’s no relationship to the next generation.
Even small 50, right? It’s staggering. It’s in the 70s.
I won’t specifically say the number, it’s some 75, 74, something like that. Of one
spouse dies and assets leave, the advisor. And it’s like in the 90s, of both spouses
die, assets leave the advisor.
The Uncertainty EDGE_Transcript 17
Because there isn’t that next generation. So the first most important thing that you
could do to increase your valuation or just get your pressure wash in your house,
right, the curb appeal, is to bridge the gap[…] the next generation. The kids of
your big clients, especially your top clients, top 10 clients, have the conversation
of getting to know the children, whether they have an account open or not.
Make sure that there’s a relationship there because that’s a very real risk. It’s
inevitable that as you are thinking about retirement, your clients are probably 65
plus. A big way to mitigate that risk is go, no, I know all of the next gen of my top
10 or 15 clients, right?
The second is, which people would have, Sunsetters typically will have a lifestyle
practice, meaning I’m not trying to build enterprise value here, it’s paying my bills.
Totally, totally fair. Normalized fees to industry standard and average is a second
way that you can prepare yourself.
So if some of your fees are super high, super high meaning one and a half
percent, two percent or they’re super low, right? Oh, we only charge 40 basis
points or 50 basis points blended. Normalizing that towards to the 80 to 100 basis
points.
The average, yeah.
It’s going to help down the road because you’re not going to have to adjust up or
down. It’s[…] it’s currently set up. So those are the two things that I think are ways
that you could actively improve the practice as it is today.
Two additional? Yeah, go ahead.
Sorry, I was going to say, I think that’s very valuable. I think you’re reminding to go
coming back to that, call it a house, selling a house analogy. I think the advisors
well positioned should be putting themselves into the shoes of the buyer, like not
what did you use the house for?
What did you use this room for? How did you use the backyard? What is the
potential buyer going to want to do with this house?
And how best can you prepare and position it with that potential buyer in mind?
And you’re bringing that kind of mindset, what you’re saying with those
recommendations, you’re bringing that mindset into an advisory practice to say,
it’s your lifestyle practice. That’s great.
The Uncertainty EDGE_Transcript 18
This has done work for you for 20 years, 30 years, 40 years. But remember,
you’re trying to sell a going concern or a business that makes sense to the buyer
for what they’re looking for, et cetera. So make sure that you are positioning[…]
accordingly, right?
Or preparing it accordingly.
If you want best in class value, right? If you really don’t care, then okay, right? But
when I value your book, I’m going to say, okay, you got a million five in revenue,
but you’re charging 2% or one five.
So I’m going to discount that to what industry averages. Let’s call it a flat 1% on
your book. So that’s going to be the number I use for revenue.
Plus, all of your clients are relatively old and you don’t have. So that’s going to be
a negative against your multiple. So here’s your new number.
If that’s fine and you don’t really care, it’s just gravy, then leave it as it is. But if it’s
like, how do I improve it so that I’m selling for a new high in the neighborhood to
keep with the example, those are two really easy ways.
That’s a great point. So Andrew, we’re coming to the end of our podcast. So I have
a couple of rapid-fire questions for you that I ask all of my guests.
So if you’re ready.
Yeah, hit me with them.
Number one, professionally, what is the most[…] lesson you’ve learned over the
years?
I would say, don’t look for the elevator, meaning a lot of people in business and
entrepreneurship spend a lot of time on the ground floor looking for the elevator
that takes them to the next level. It’s find the set of stairs and go up one stair a
week consistently. So I think too many people spend time looking for the elevator
and not walking up the stairs.
That’s great. Yeah, the shortcut. There is no shortcuts to on many things, anything
that’s worth having or learning or doing.
So that’s a great tip. What is one other piece of practical advice you would offer
listeners keen on applying your insights, whether it’s as being an entrepreneur or
in terms of the service that you’re offering?
The Uncertainty EDGE_Transcript 19
In terms of an entrepreneur, I have started many businesses in my life career. I
was the kid that had the mow the grass. I mean, I’ve wanted to do everything.
First business I ever started was a tow truck business because I ran the numbers.
I’m like, wow, one tow truck could generate. Piece for entrepreneurship, I would
say, is find a running mate.
It’s a[…] that I’ve taken from the Vault Conference. But a running mate is
something that’s very important. It’s a partnership.
It’s more than just a co-worker. If you want to start a business, find someone that
can push and drive you, and you can do to them equally. There’s a lot of value in
finding a running mate.
And then just, I think, in life, like as I tell my wife often, like wiggle your toes. I think
too often in life, and I was this way as a kid, when’s the next fall break or
Christmas break or when’s the next birthday? Or like, we’re always waiting for the
next thing.
We’re transient, right? We’re in between point A and point B. And we just can’t
wait to get to point B.
And so I think for life, it’s it’s wiggle your toes and kind of be present in where you
are, whether it’s you just had a great, you just closed a big client or, you know,
grandkids came over, whatever it is. I think too often in life, we’re rushing to point
B and we could all wiggle our toes a little bit more.
That’s great too[…] absolutely right. Especially in a profession like ours, where it’s
a very type A, you’re building, it’s always the next meeting, the next client, the
next deal, etc.
So that’s very good advice. Andrew, this has been a great discussion. If listeners
want to learn more about you or BuyAUM, where should they go?
Yeah. So buyaum.com. We’ve got a ton of resources for transition, sunsetters, 15
or 20 articles that I’ve written all about, but our most popular one is RAA
Valuations, the mistakes that people make.
There’s a ton of resources on there, and I made sure that they have the click to
listen feature, because if it’s seven pages, give it to me in my ears while I’m taking
a walk or something. So that’s on there. And then also on the website is the free
True Value Report.
The Uncertainty EDGE_Transcript 20
You put in eight or 10 questions, what’s your AUM, how much do you charge, and
we’ll create a valuation for you. We’ll hop on a Google Meet or a Zoom and walk
through with everybody. Just buyaum.com is probably the best resource.
Awesome. Andrew, thank you for joining us today on The Uncertainty EDGE
Podcast.
In this[…] of The Uncertainty EDGE Podcast, I spoke with Andrew Mirolli, cofounder of BuyAUM, about why most financial advisors fail to plan their own
succession, and how a relationship-first approach can transform one of the most
uncertain transitions in an advisor’s career. Here are my three key takeaways.
Number one, the 75% regret problem.
Andrew shared a striking statistic. 75% of sellers across all industries regret their
transition a year later. Not because of the deal terms, but because they never
planned what comes next.
As advisors, we help clients think through retirement identity and purpose, yet we
often skip this step ourselves. This uncertainty isn’t just about finding a buyer. It’s
about answering, who am I when I’m no longer doing this 50 hours a week?
True succession planning requires both business strategy and personal vision.
Diagnosis Before Deal Making Andrew’s firm spends 4-6 hours with sellers before
making any introductions. Three deliberate calls to uncover what truly matters.
This isn’t about blasting a practice to thousands of buyers. It’s about diagnosing
the right fit, the legacy priorities, deal structure preferences and non-negotiables.
By front-loading this discovery work, they achieve an 86% second meeting
rate[…] lesson? Clarity in what you want eliminates wasted time and seller fatigue.
Rushing to go without proper diagnosis leads to mismatched deals and regret.
1. Positioning for Value When it’s time to sell, advisors often think about what the
practice meant to them, but buyers care about what it can become. Andrew
emphasized two actionable steps.
Build relationships with the next generation of your top clients’ families, and
normalize your fee structure to industry averages. These aren’t just cosmetic
fixes. They’re strategic moves that reduce buyer risk and increase valuation.
The best transitions happen when you prepared your practice not for how you
used it, but for how someone else will build on it. Andrew reminds us that
The Uncertainty EDGE_Transcript 21
succession isn’t just a transaction. It’s a transition that demands the same
thoughtful planning that we give our clients.
Advisors who master this uncertainty don’t just exit well. They graduate to their
next chapter with clarity and confidence.
Thanks for listening to this episode of The Uncertainty EDGE. If today’s
conversation sparked something, subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss an
episode. You will get practical tools, deeper insights and new episodes every
other Tuesday.”
“Please leave a review wherever you get your podcasts. And you can also
subscribe to the newsletter at theuncertaintyedge.com for more insights. When
certainty isn’t coming, your EDGE is knowing how you move forward anyways.”
The Uncertainty EDGE_Transcript 22